Hi Kim;
I'm sorry to bother you, but I was hoping you could help me.
I have spent the last year or so studying feminism and the harm it has brought society. I don't know how long you have been involved in anti-feminism/men's rights, but I have the impression it has been a while. Would you mind recommending a site that is woman friendly? Are there any? Every one I have seen and joined as of yet (and it's been a fair few) have been more anti-woman than pro-men. I frequently find myself feeling less than sympathetic,and indeed sometimes hostile, towards these men - not at all what I want to achieve!
I want to learn more, become involved, and support men's rights but I am extremely uncomfortable doing so with all of the sites I have found so far. I come to you as a concerned wife and mother. Thank you.
What you see above is a message sent to me by a woman. I've received more than one such message. Invariably, they come from women who are opposed to the rampant misandry they see in society, who reject (or are at least starting to reject) feminism but are uncomfortable at MRA sites and forums because of the anti-women sentiments they perceive there.
While I responded to the above message individually, I would like to respond to the rest collectively.
First of all, I think it bears mentioning that men have been on the receiving end of a concerted effort to extirpate them. The very law that purports to protect us has conspired to destroy the lives of men. They have been vilified; their goodness and generosity maligned and used against them. They have been betrayed by those whom they have loved, cared for and sought to protect.
Yes, there are angry, sad, disillusioned, disappointed and disgusted men.
I would even submit that men aren't nearly as angry as they have every right to be under the circumstances considering that many of them have had their lives decimated....everything they have worked for and cared about ripped away from them. And, while there may be a few voices that are hostile toward women...that is NOTHING compared to an entire society and legal system that is geared toward the decimation of men.
That said, the reason to oppose misandry in society and feminism is because they are wrong. It isn't to fit in, to join a group or to expand one's social horizons. Who cares if you are unwelcome or uncomfortable at a men's forum? The entire online community could hate you and it should have zero effect on what you do because you shouldn't be doing it in order to gain approval. If you want fanfare and pats on the back, then adhere to and promulgate the oh-so-popular feminist ideologies....stand upon a platform of hatred and anti-male bias if you're looking for acceptance, praise and adulation. For me....I would rather do what is right.
You don't even have to be part of an online forum (although I do recommend taking the time to read the articles and further educate yourself) in order to fight misandry. Start your own site, or your own blog, and wage your own war. Fight feminism in the home, at work, on the streets and amongst your peers. Speak out against hatred. Speak out each and every time you hear the common, readily accepted biases and slurs against men. Stand up in defense of such "antiquated notions" as honesty, virtue, marital fidelity, integrity, kindness and compassion. Condemn the feminist culture that encourages promiscuity, lasciviousness, cruelty, selfishness and a lack of accountability in women. Denounce double standards and biases in society and within our legal system. Stand up in support of a father's right to parent his children and censure those who would suggest a father is anything less than integral in the lives of his children. Deprecate each and every incidence of violence, dishonesty, cruelty and evil on the part of women and demand that they be held accountable for their actions.
What difference does it make if you don't like someone on a forum? You shouldn't be doing this for them...at least not on an individual level. You should be doing it for your fathers and for their fathers...for the countless, nameless, forgotten men upon whose backs our society was built. You should be doing it for your brothers and your husbands whom you love and for your sons whose job it is for you to protect. You should be doing it for society and humanity and you should even be doing it for yourself because, as bad as it is to live in a world decayed by a corrupting evil....to live in such a world and have done NOTHING is inexcusable.
Ultimately, the reason to do what is right is simply because it is the right thing to do.
You may not be able to change the world, but you can make a difference in the lives of those around you. There are so many ways to help. A few additional things that I do and recommend;
-Organize a coat drive in your area and collect coats for the homeless (the vast majority of which are men).
-Suggest doing an "angel tree" at your work or church for the local VA Homes and hospitals (for anyone who is unfamiliar with angel trees, they are Christmas trees whose sole ornaments are comprised of paper angels with a 'wish list' for different individuals. People can pick an angel off the tree and purchase the things on the list. I've done this for veterans, elderly in retirement homes, the homeless and impoverished children, and it is always my family's favorite part of Christmas).
-Find like minded individuals and together start a letter writing campaign protesting misandry in our media and legal system.
This is what integrity is. It is deciding what is right and standing up for it no matter what.
*I started this post about a month ago (it's been sitting with plenty of company in the dusty archives of Kim's uncompleted posts) and was reminded of it when I read Hestia's recent blog post 'The Place Women for in the MRM'. I would recommend reading it as she adds additional insight and ideas on activism.
Posts
33 comments:
Bravo, Kim.
You have encapsulated brilliantly what a lot of men, myself included, feel about this issue. Perhaps now that a woman has said it, it will finally be heard.
As a message to the original poster:
This war has been waging for more than four decades, and in fact is still being waged via false statistics, and lack of accountability on the part of women everywhere. While it is encouraging that women are beginning to cross the divide and explore open dialogue with men, I fear that this is not enough, and by itself will never be enough. This issue is not about forming allies, nor fitting in with the disenfranchised and saying "Oh yes, I feel your pain".
In the first place, no you don't. You cannot know it because you are not us. Secondly, there aren't any reasons why we should trust what you say; once you actually do something tangible, then we will be more open. This is done by doing what is right, not what you think will be popular.
This perhaps sounds very harsh. I am sorry for that. It is necessary, though, before my trust is earned, and I think a lot of men would agree.
If the distrust, invective, and anger are too much for you on many sites, I would suggest going to standyourground.com. The moderators are not tolerant of hostile posts, and perhaps there you will find some measure of comfortable dialogue.
But by all means: take action based upon your sense of right and wrong. Do not concern yourself with how you are regarded by those of us who have borne the wounds for forty years.
Excellent answers. Especially this:
"Start your own site, or your own blog, and wage your own war. Fight feminism in the home, at work, on the streets and amongst your peers. Speak out against hatred. Speak out each and every time you hear the common, readily accepted biases and slurs against men."
To the woman who sent you this message, I say: The men who you see that are expressing "anti-woman sentiments" (We really can't soften our language to the point where women do not read misogyny into it and still accomplish any of our goals.) would stop expressing those sentiments if just 25% of women cared about issues afecting men, cared about stopping feminism because it HURTS US, rather than because of it inconveniencing some women.
If you are really committed to stopping feminism, you need to get in there,make it clear that you care about men and hate feminism and encourage like-minded women to do the same.
The animosity you perceive is directed at the women who are doing nothing or trying to undermine us, if you can demonstrate you are with us, you will have the undying support of your fellow MRA's.
The fact that women like Kim here and certain others are welcomed with open arms is proof that any woman who is truly innocent and seeking fairness can also be welcomed into the fold, so long as they prove that they are on our side.
It is a hard-won friendship, but I am willing to bet that some of these ladies have men who would take a bullet for them in the MRM.
>This war has been waging for more than four decades
Moer like over 200 hundred years.
http://www.pinn.net/~sunshine/book-sum/gouges.html
What I found in that link were numerous mentions of women being accountable to the law, and given no quarter simply because she is a woman.
That right there is huge difference between then and now.
The feministas like to proclaim victory when one of their own gets away with horrendous crime. They usually cite the so-called oppression of the ages, and the corruption that led to a woman getting off scot-free is a just and equitable pay-back for those old sins.
Women declared open warfare on men in the sixties. It was formally recognized as such, and gleefully pronounced as the beginning of the end for men.
Thank for this Kim, I'm sure that if what you'd said had been written by a man a lot of women would have just sneered at it and ignored what it said outright.
To the woman who wrote the letter:
If you saw someone getting beaten in the street and you spoke up to draw attention to it but were shouted down, would you stop intervening every time you saw someone getting assaulted?
Hopefully no, but that is exactly what is happening when you join in a discussion with MRA sites.
We've been beaten for the last 30-40 years by women and every time we've spoken up we're told to shut up and "take it like a man".
So when a woman comes on a site claiming to be against feminism we tend to take what she says with a grain of salt, at least until she proves she's not just there to derail conversation away from MRA topics, or stir shit among the MRA's.
If you're serous about trying to stop the destructive elements of feminism, I'm sorry but you're gonna have to bear the brunt of the women who came before you who didn't care about what their ideology would do to the world.
One thing that I think this society needs to get straight, though, is that being victimized does not absolve one of the hurtful effects of one's actions and words.
This applies both to men and to women. If women took this to heart, they would not make false accusations against men or mock them when they are victims of violence, sexual or otherwise, or when they are denied custodial rights when they are the most fit parent. They would treat men as individuals according to the individual quality of their character.
But if men took this to heart, they, too would treat women as individuals instead of generalizing. I too am uncomfortable with the anti-woman tone that some anti-misandry sites take. To be lumped in by association is no more right than those who decide that all men are dogs.
I refuse to call myself feminist, although I certainly want equal opportunities for women. I am an egalitarian, because I also want equal opportunities for men. Any discrimination in ANY direction is wrong, be it against those who in power or those who have been without. Revenge is disgusting and wrong, and I will not have it, not from women who insist on playing the victim or from men who perpetuate the cycle with their own bitterness.
It IS possible to speak without misogyny OR misandry. All it takes is simple fairness. If I see a place where women need help, I will say it. If I see a place where men need help, I will say that too. I want to see ALL have dignity and respect, and it does not take mean and accusing language to accomplish that goal.
One more question, Kim. I am not really very good at using Blogger yet--how do I send you a private message?
@M.C. Evers,
That's my fault. I don't have a 'contact me' option set up on my blog. I've considered it but decided I don't really want to hear what feminists would like to tell me in private. ;-)
You can leave a comment here with you're email address (don't worry, I won't publish it) and I'll email you back or you can send me a private message at Antimisandry.com if you have an account there.
I for one miss KellyMac. I know she was going through a very rough patch, and her sadness was quite evident the last I heard from her. I have tried to contact her privately, but never heard anything else. I really do hope that she is okay.
Yes, she is an individual, and I valued her friendship based upon that, as I do for Kim. Keep in mind however, that these are two exceptions to what has become the rule.
Apart from these two exceptions, I prefer to just keep myself away from the company of women. I doubt that's very hurtful to anyone.
Good post, Kim. As a male MRA, I would not pretend to tell my brothers what they should or should not say. That being said, I might SUGGEST that we would be better served by directing our rage at deserving targets; which is not 'women' as a collective entity, and certainly not individual women who have done no wrong.
Those who should be the targets of our rage are the feminists, and other enablers of misandry, be they male or female - though I am under no illusion that mostly they are female.
As I say, it is a suggestion I would recommend to my brothers, and not a demand placed upon them.
Kim,
You are correct in that there should be a lot more anger then what is actually seen towards women on some of these forums.
In defense of the attitudes found on some of these forums, one has to understand that in the past and even in the present women who join a lot of these MRA forums are fifth columnists.
These are women and in some cases men who have taken it upon themselves to silence or otherwise destroy any dialogue among MRA's and MGTOWs through sowing chaos and discord.
I've seen this tactic often enough to know that it's very rare that a woman joins an MRA forum to actually discuss and learn anything. Most members of such forums are to say the least cynical and automatically suspect every woman who shows up and 9 times out of 10 they're accurate in spotting the troublemakers and the trolls.
Although there are a very few women like yourselves who directly speak out against the misandry there are 80 who don't say a thing and 19 who are in the "burn men at the stake camp".
With continuing and might I even say escalating war on men the time for peaceful dialog is long over.
I'll be frank here, in my observations from the past few years I'm seeing more and more signs of a massive backlash against feminism and against those who openly support them. What I fear is that the level of rhetoric coming from the misandrist camps is fueling the building rage in many men.
It doesn't help that some of these hard line feminists are openly talking about legally suppressing anyone who dares to dissent against their pronouncements.
In Canada there is a law on the books meant to suppress hate speech as found in some white supremacists websites. However, the feminists in Canada are seeking to broaden this law to make it punishable under the law to write or communicate any thing which is seen as anti-feminist.
Feminists are building a bomb which will eventually explode in their face. The anger found on many MRA sites is still directed at feminists but with the "war of the sexes" heating up I'm sorry to say that many women on the sidelines who don't have any opinions one way or other will end up paying the price.
The anti-marriage movement within the MRA sphere is one such result. Women are now finding it hard to find any man willing to enter into a relationship with them. I'm one such believer, I will never enter into a relationship with a woman from the Anglosphere or one with Western values.
Unfortunately, for every man who turns his back on a woman there is one who may want revenge. This is never a good thing and will lead to misery down the line for society at large.
Feminism is too big and too well funded and backed by a powerful lobby, to stop it in it's tracks. Feminism has become the law of the land and any man willing to stand up against it openly will face almost certain ruin(both financially and socially).
Women are not welcome in many forums because they've become the general enemy, men don't know who to trust among women anymore so it's safer to simply not trust any of them. This is a sad fact which will have long term cultural consequences.
Women are not welcome in many forums because they've become the general enemy, men don't know who to trust among women anymore so it's safer to simply not trust any of them. This is a sad fact which will have long term cultural consequences.
It's like Happy Ghost said: women are like hand grenades. More men are operating under that assumption.
"Stand up in defense of such "antiquated notions" as honesty, virtue, marital fidelity, integrity, kindness and compassion."
"Compassion".
Oh my!
The feminists LOVE to smear that word around! Drools like snake-oil from their forked tongues out of both sides of their lying mouths, it does!
As usual, a fantastic and insightful post. I find it difficult to speak against double standards though, because last time I tried I got called a woman beater and someone threatened to kill me. So... that didn't go too well. Still, the point stands and I hope I live to see a world free of sexism.
One day.
Anyway, a great post and a pleasure to read, thank you :)
I run a web-site.
I have a pro-men section on it:
http://www.rip-factor.com/formen/index.html
Read my criticism of MRA's
http://www.rip-factor.com/formen/mensrights.html
I also run a blog:
men-factor.blogspot.com
Any and all are welcome to criticize my web-site. There are FEEDBACK links scattered everywhere.
HOWEVER - I reserve the right to change any material on my site at my discretion.
That is, ALL FEEDBACK will be read.
Expect a civilized response if you leave a return E-mail.
Even as a male, I agree with your post.
Fidelbogen--Where I agree is that if compassion is sincere, it HAS to be extended to all.
It seems that there is a line that can be crossed, though, of becoming what one hates. At the very least, I think that avoiding the kind of rhetoric that is bigoted against one gender or the other should be avoided because it only engenders the same spirit in oneself that one protests in others.
This is the problem I have with feminists, and this is the problem I have with those who paint all women with the same brush. I don't care if people do things like abstain from a relationship (and I've heard both men and women talk this way). I DO mind if people start making judgments about another's character simply because of gender, instead of judgment on individual merits.
At the very least, I think that the men and women who make hateful remarks towards each other need to take a good hard look in the mirror. Someone has to break the cycle. Legal principles that are damaging need to be fought tooth and nail. But I don't think we will get anywhere by destroying each other...and the behavior I've seen all around makes me more sure that I want to be considered an egalitarian and not have any other labels attached to me. That makes me no less sincere in caring about the issues.
But, that's the effect caustic behavior can have.
I have had enough. I will not live as a slave any longer.
The woman who purports to want to help is drawing fire, this doesn't surprise me. I'm a man and I find her post initially example to make my point. It's irritating for a few reasons.
Men have endured complete slavery and second class citizen status for upwards of 40 years now. No one mourns for us, so yes we are very hostile and are likely to remain that way. She clearly cares more for her sense of ease than the people actually involved. She is getting into the anti-feminism because SOME of its victims make her feel unease. This shows a mild distaste for injustice but I wonder how she would feel if the tables were turned? Imagine this brave new world:
Your a woman and you wake up one day to find the police starring down at you. Your husband is standing beside them grinning and he says you hit the children! You are immediately arrested and kept locked up for 4 days until your father can raise the money to post bail. You are told that if you want to leave prison you'd better sign a confession - otherwise you stay in jail. While in prison on day three you are beaten and raped. You are terrified you have AIDS but can't tell anyone because you know they'll say you deserved it and laugh at you. You sign the confession to get away from the place which makes you a "criminal" and you now have a record. Your ex and his lawyer make the absolute most of this. You are forbidden to see your children and your husband has cleaned out the bank accounts. ALL of your friends let it be known that they think you are GUILTY and at best they are going to stay neutral. Most never talk to you again but even when they do you can hear them judging you. Those who do speak to you always mention that there are "Two sides to every story" which of course means that they know you are in the wrong.
END PART 1
PART II
You are presented with an order for spousal support, child support, and a bill for his divorce attorney because it was YOUR crime that caused him to divorce you. He's cleaned out the bank accounts while you were in jail so you don't have anything. He gets you arrested again when you try to see your children at school and you lose your job because of this and are taken back to prison for violating the court order. Now that you have no income and you can't pay your court ordered child support so to keep you out of prison your mother has to take out a loan on her house. She deeply resents you for this and tells you in no uncertain terms that she believes you did abuse your children. You also find out that your husband has moved his secretary into your home and that he is teaching your children to call her "mommy". Later on after the no contact order is made permanent and he tells your children that you are dead.
The money your mother pays only lasts one month and you still can't find a job so its back to court. You plead that you lost your job but the judge won't lower your child support because it was YOUR crime that made you lose your job and why should your children suffer with less just because of YOUR criminality? You don't have the money but constantly fight to pay it. You may NEVER see your kids. You find out your husband has moved away. DCCS won't tell you where, they just tell you to keep paying OR ELSE. You can't and its another contempt hearing. This time its prison for 3 months and it will be six next time. You hope your aren't raped... this time... AGAIN. Over the next 10 years you spend 1/2 your life in jail and most of the rest homeless. You did get raped again, actually several times during one spell, but your a criminal and that's what criminals deserve. You are a deadbeat mom, a moral reprobate, seen as thoroughly evil by the society at large for "abandoning" your children, and the law exists to protect men and their children from the likes of you. Get to work, make your slave payments on time, or else.
You meet a man who seems a little concerned that what you are going through might be "unjust" but he tells you he doesn't want you to make him feel guilty or uncomfortable when you discuss it with him. He reminds you that "not all men are like that" even though you know and have met several who actively whoop it up and laugh and make jokes when they hear stories like yours. You can't talk about those sorts of things because that makes them feel unwelcome though. What do you say to such a person? What do you say when he says that you have a problem with anger?
Anonymous, thank you for posting this. It's about time more men like you spoke up. It's very lonely putting the facts out there only to be banned and riduculed.
There is a difference between identifying a scenario as contemptible--which it deservedly is--and identifying every single person who was born a certain way as a criminal or a bigot instead of judging people as individuals. To talk about facts is one thing: that feminists are abusing men. That is hard fact: in fact, were "academic freedom" (I use those words loosely) to permit it, I would lay real money on the fact that media and entertainment bias against men would be statistically proven. The courts are biased against men--again, statistics bear this out. I could do the same with numerous other issues, and if I am given facts, then those facts are cause to act to CHANGE those statistics.
But an individual cannot be described by those statistics. The individual is not an aggregate of those around them--but rather a person who has made their own choices both personally and publicly. And for someone to look at a person's chromosomal makeup, and automatically decide that person deserves to be treated unkindly...that sort of pre-emptive strike is returning exactly the same treatment that began the whole mess in the first place.
This is what some would like to do to men, and it's what some would like to do to women in return. Since when does bigotry in one direction justify bigotry in the other direction? (And both should be described by one simple word: bigotry--rather than given one term for one direction and one term the other way, because the sin is the same.) If we keep doing that, then there will be NO end to this.
If someone cannot face hard, statistical fact (and it IS out there, though it's horribly hard to find due to the lack of free information exchange that the media and academia have tried to ensure), then I say the person who will not listen has the problem and frankly they're a lost cause. But if one's case is colored by hatred, then I don't blame a person for wanting to get away from that--and it may not even be the facts they're running from, but the rage in and of itself. And I know that many people will immediately dismiss even the most ironclad facts if they are presented in an emotionally uncontrolled manner. (Just look at the "ladies" of The View for "emotionally uncontrolled." Their attitude problem is the reason I won't believe them even if they say "The sky is blue.") It's the same thing no matter who it's coming from...the amount of power held by each gender may be different, but the internal attitude is absolutely identical, and a person loses when they absorb the soul of their captor into their own.
Amfortas says:
Thank you Kim and thanks to the woman who wrote to you.
I can understand her problem and sympathise with it.
I can understand men's anger. I sympathise and empathise with it too. But do not condone the rejection of good women. It is an expression of pain.
Some men are in great pain and like an accident victim screaming at those that try to help, those helpers must 'take it on the chin', so to speak, and persist in applying a salve.
But when the morphine needle takes effect that injured person may calm and recognise and thank.
What can a woman like your correspondant do?
I suggest she does just that little that she can. Persist. Love. Understand. Forgive and be forgiven.
Like you, Kim, and indeed like me, she will get disappointed sometimes and perhaps hurt by the MRAs who have not suffered personally but take on the mantle for their fellows just as Feminists whine about the 'oppression of women' even while they are privileged.
Some MRAs do, it is true, reject even nice women. Such women as visit men's forums often have a sense of association. They have a womanly desire to be close to men. They recognise injustice and gratuitous infliction of pain. They want to help.
They can bring the good side of that very Feminine sensitivity that women have always had; a sensitivity that has been perverted in so many 'Feminists' today.
And we persist.
Well, you do. And I am encouraged.
"That said, the reason to oppose misandry in society and feminism is because they are wrong. It isn't to fit in, to join a group or to expand one's social horizons. Who cares if you are unwelcome or uncomfortable at a men's forum?"
Kim, there's no need to jump on this woman. I know exactly how she feels and there's no reason for her to be made unwelcome. No one has the right to be "anti-woman" or "anti-man". People are speaking of this like men have no power and are living in a world where women dominate and are mostly the corrupt queens of the country, keeping men isolated and forced to take cover. Bull. Do you know how many unfairnesses, how many disgusting prejudices I've seen against women in Christian circles? How many people have addressed me offensively? Yet do you think I'd have any right to attack a Christian man who approached me in a friendly way and offered empathy? NO. And neither do men have this right. Absolutely asinine, this picture of men huddling together from the mad crowds, hissing warily at the "enemy" as she draws close. There's no remote excuse for anti-womanhood, Kim, anymore than for anti-manhood. This society has unfairnesses on both sides and always will. Men have been suffering for forty years? Women had their suffering before that, for more than 40 years, and they were told to shut up too. I don't care about women whining now that they have it unfair, and I don't care about men making their sex the main victimized one either; I address injustice where I find it, and I have no patience for these "my gender has been ridiculed" rage websites. Being a masculinist is just as ridiculous as being a feminist; you should fight for what's right regardless of gender instead of using gender automatically to define who you think is the bigger victim.
I'm the Anon who just submitted a comment.
"I would even submit that men aren't nearly as angry as they have every right to be under the circumstances considering that many of them have had their lives decimated"
Which men? The ones who have been wronged, I imagine, because nowhere near most men in America have had everything ripped away from them. Men still run the Senate, the military, most huge companies, and I'm happy about this. My point is that this would be impossible if this country were a rabid matriarchy that robbed all men of everything (I should also point out that I'm aware most women, by far, are not discriminated against either). Nevertheless, I don't want anyone thinking I don't care about wrongs against men; I hate modern feminism, but I'm still able to see sexism towards women sometimes and I sympathize totally. I do, and must do, the exact same for men. It's simply the overwhelming impression of a world which hates them that some men around some sites have, which repels me; in this sense, they're like the feminists they hate, blind to all but their own wounds, determined the whole world is against them. Yet this is understandable, when the wounds are great enough and the years of hurt long enough.
Spock, your words frusterated me at first but after the first few sentences, I saw reason and clarity in your views. Thank you.
To the Anon who unfavorably second-guessed the woman who wrote Kim: you don't gain anything by showing hostility to such a woman. If it's understandable for a man to get tired of trying to sympathize with women due to women's nasty attitudes, then the same should go for women getting nasty attitudes from men. Goes both ways. There's no excuse for stopping doing what's right, but wariness is a natural reaction to such treatment.
"And, while there may be a few voices that are hostile toward women...that is NOTHING compared to an entire society and legal system that is geared toward the decimation of men"
There are more than a few voices hostile towards women; that's just what the world's like, unfairness in every section. I've heard horror stories of men with their reputations and families taken from them, and my rage is the same for wronged men and wronged women. I do see the smaller signs some don't: women always getting custody, men slurred in TV programs, men's modesty disregarded sometimes (in an episode of "Grey's Anatomy", the bitchy black doctor gave a male patient a weird look when he requested a male doctor, something like a surprised sneer. Grumpy witch; if it'd been a female patient, she wouldn't have blinked). I sided with the husband in "Fireproof" and spoke openly on a different blog about how I wished the wife had stopped her nagging. One snippy woman said, "So you'd prefer she keep her mouth shut than express herself?" I replied, "Keep quiet rather than put down a husband bending backwards for her? Uh, YEAH!" The woman more or less wrote me off as one of those Christians who preferred women didn't speak. This caused much amusement for the other women on the blog, knowing me as anything but patriarchal. I'm egalitarian, all the way.
(conclusion of previous comment)
"I will never enter into a relationship with a woman from the Anglosphere or one with Western values"
Not all Western or Anglo values are bad; most people I know would be shocked by the hatred I've seen against both sexes in different circles. This marriage attitude is especially bad, coming from both extremes, beginning with feminism and coming now from hatred against women, or sex-wide distrust, as I'll call the wary attitudes of some anti-misandrists. Feminists began it, all right; when I first termed myself a feminist (stopped long since) I didn't know the true extremes of many. Their words still shock me:
"Marriage is slavery."
"Housewives are like Jews to the gas chamber."
"All men are rapists."
"Every time a woman achieves an orgasm, she's oppressed".
Total hatred, absolute misery, for men and women.
Spock, Evers, Mark, third Anon, Cheese, Scarecrow and last Anon, you are awesome. I'll pray for any struggles you experience.
Jennifer
(Sorry if my previous comment is duplicated!)
Anon,
"How many people have addressed me offensively?"
How many people have had you falsely imprisoned? How many people have kidnapped your children? How many people have stolen your house? How many people have stolen all the money you have collected in 26+ years of working?
Get back to me on that and tell me how 'bad' you women have it now.
Women like you disgust me. For good reason. Your 'addressed me offensively' is worse than the destruction of a mans life by a criminal wife.
I hope I wasn't too harsh in my first comment here, or dismissive. Thank you for your efforts, Kim.
Jennifer
Way to twist my words, Global.
Jennifer,
"Way to twist my words, Global."
Given that I didn't your comment is typical of a woman.
That's precisely what you did, but I expect no discretion.
No one has the right to be "anti-woman" or "anti-man".
And yet, women who engage in it are not only expressing their "right" to be angry, they get Pulitzers for it. Men are being "un-manly" or "threatening" in their distrust.
People have every right to believe and feel whatever satisfies them, and keeps them alive. Deal with it.
Incidentally, women may have been told to shut up, men were told to build civilization, take up the dangerous jobs, and defiend their homelands with their lives.
Go ahead and tell me who suffered more outrage.
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