I got into an arguement on a forum a while back with a woman who said if she had to choose between saving her dog and a human life...any human life....she'd save her dog. Mind you she was married and had children and made it quite clear that she would leave them to their own devices and save her dog. She also mentioned that once while enroute to the vets because her dog was sick, she happened upon an accident that had just occurred. She didn't stop. She figured nobody had ever bothered going out of their way to help her, so why should she bother going out of her way.
As much as I love my dogs....I would save a human, any human, and would just hope and pray that my dogs were able to take care of themselves. I expressed this to her, along with a few other thoughts I had concerning the value of human life. Her response was that I, obviously, had led a charmed life. Clearly, nothing bad had ever happened to me so it was easy for me to maintain a moral high ground....I was just lucky.
I hear that a lot from women; that I'm lucky. Mind you, I do consider myself incredibly lucky. Lucky that I have never had to go hungry or homeless, lucky to be healthy, lucky to have a wonderful husband and three beautiful children. What bothers me is that apparently everything in my life that I deeply value; my marriage, my children, my character and integrity....these are all simply the result of random luck.
Apparently, if you have a successful marriage it's not because you worked very hard to be kind, understanding, loving and selfless.....nope, you were just lucky. If you are a decent human being it has nothing to do with years of introspection and constantly striving to better yourself.....you're just lucky.
I find this yet another way to avoid any semblance of accountability. It's not your fault if you are a despicable human being with no redeeming qualities.....you were just unlucky. You're not responsible for the failure of your marriage....you were unlucky in the husband department.
A good friend of mine told me a story recently of an incident that happened while she was at work. She works two nights a week and there are quite a few divorced women at her work. My friend is kind and friendly, attractive and thin AND she's been happily married for 14 years and has 3 kids. The women she works with were all talking about how hard their lives are, how much it sucks to be single moms, how there aren't any decent men......when one of them commented, "Unlike (insert my friend's name here)". All the women kind of smirked and joined in with, "Yeah, unlike ______". My friend asked them what they were talking about and they sarcastically replied with, "It must be hard being skinny and pretty and happily married....you've REALLY got it rough".
My friend was a little upset by this. It was painfully obvious that the women deeply resented her. It was also quite obvious that, in their minds, the only difference between them and her was that she was lucky and they weren't. She had somehow gotten off easy while they'd gotten the short end of the stick.
The thing is, she hasn't gotten off easy. I know a lot about her life and it hasn't been easy at all. Her childhood was horrible. Her and her husband have had enormous trials and struggles throughout their marriage. She, like myself, wasn't lucky; she was determined that she would be a good person, a wonderful wife and a great mom.....regardless of what life threw at her. She didn't cave in and she didn't make excuses for herself. She faced up to her responsibilities, realizing that she alone was accountable for her decisions and actions and for the kind of person she turned out to be and nothing could take the place of personal values and integrity......not even luck.
It makes me wonder how many women are going to spend their lives, not attempting to take a long, hard look at themselves, bettering themselves or learning from their mistakes, but simply waiting for their luck to change.....I'm guessing they've got a long wait.
Men On Strike
19 minutes ago
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7 comments:
Well Kim, I'd have to say that woman was the lucky one.
Lucky in the sense that you have enough decency and sensitivity not to have spit in her face and then kicked her where the sun don't shine...
What Anon said! Seriously, I wonder how most women (such as your friend's coworkers) can totally overlook THEIR ROLE in their unhappiness; how can they not be willing to acknowledge their role in creating their miserable realities? I mean, who CHOSE these men they were with? Who CHOSE to stay with them? Who CHOSE to marry them? How can these women ignore THEIR ROLE in all this? I just shake my head at stuff like this...
Is this avoidance of responsibility an inherent characteristic, i.e. something women are born with? Is it a learned behavior? Or, is it a combination of both? I'm inclined to think that it's a combination of both, but I'm not smart enough to figure how much of each this is. I ask these questions in a serious vein.
There are many guys who say that women are incapable of causal thinking; i.e. they say that women are not able to see the possible CONSEQUENCES for their actions. You've no doubt seen this on Mancoat, since we're both members there. These same guys, as a consequence, say this is why Muslims aren't big on women's rights; they may not like Muslim men's methods (they think that they're harsh, which they are), but, after seeing stuff like this for years, many guys can easily see why Muslim men treat women the way they do. When a majority of women act like those that your friend works with (at least this is true in my experience anyway), it really gives guys adhering to this school of thought lots of ammunition; to them, this is empirical evidence that they're right. Examples such as these make it difficult to argue with men who believe this sort of thing.
Those are my thoughts. I don't know how women like your friend's coworkers can TOTALLY IGNORE their role in their unhappiness; I don't see how they can absolve themselves of any and all responsibility for the fact that they ended up as divorced, single moms for a REASON. I know that I've seen this all too often myself. Many guys will use examples such as these as proof to say that there was a REASON for keeping women on a tight leash; the more examples of this I see, the harder it is to argue with them. Have a good night...
MarkyMark
@MarkMark
I don't agree that women are incapable of realizing the consequences of their actions. I believe that modern women are much like spoiled children. If you raise a child without teaching the child proper values, without teaching them that there are consquences for their actions, the chances of them turning out to be responsible adults diminishes significantly. Today we are seeing a large increase in young people who seem without the benefit of a conscience or a grasp of basic morals and principals. This, of course, stems from their parenting....or lack thereof. It's much the same with women today.
If women were held accountable for their actions, to the same degree of accountability we hold men, their behavior would change significantly.
The whole 'poor me, I'm unlucky' attitude is not only seen in women. It's fairly common among 'victim groups'. Once people have been convinced that they are 'victims' they generally cease to hold themselves accountable for their misfortune, choosing to lay the blame on their victimization.
Now, I will agree that due to the differences between men and women, there are things that will be a greater challenge to women just as there are some things that will come easier.
Perhaps. because of their natural tendencies, a woman is far quicker to grasp onto her victimhood and relinquish responsibility than a man would be, but I think it's 100%incorrect to assume that a woman cannot anticipate the consequences of her actions.
Of the women I know who have not been raised under the mantle of feminism, I don't see any of this lack of accountability. They are some of the most responsible people I know. They also are honest, faithful, charitable, kind.....basically the opposite of what we tend to see with women under feminism.
All human beings, women included, are self-aware. We are all able to choose and we are all accountable for the choices we make. Women not holding themselves accountable is a reflection of living their lives without being held accountable. The assertion that it's not their fault....that they don't have the capacity to distinguish right from wrong, is, in my opinion, just another way to not hold women accountable for their actions.
Kim,
Thanks for clearing that up; I was hoping for some of the same insight (that was similar to what you gave me on the question of whether or not women enjoy being treated badly), and I wasn't disappointed. I too have known women who are decent, moral, and honorable people. Unfortunately, many of the younger men have never seen this, so they make the assumption that women are incapable of responsibility or accountability.
I will say that guys have a little bit better sense of accountability, even if they and their sister were raised with a total LACK of accountability in the same home. I don't know if I'd attribute it to any intrinsic traits of either men or women, but to something more basic, something more primal: we, as boys, learn quickly that there are certain lines one doesn't cross. How we learn this? If boys step out of line, they get a knuckle sandwich real quick like! Good old fashioned violence serves as a sort of deterrent for us, so we do learn accountability, albeit on a more primal and rudimentary level; I don't know if boys, by having the threat of violence held over them, are more moral, but they are more aware of CONSEQUENCES to their actions, because those consequences are tangible. Girls, since they aren't as prone to violence, don't have the same impetus to observe any values, social norms, etc. that we do, since the consequences for VIOLATING these norms aren't as severe; they don't have the same sort of deterrent amongst themselves that boys have growing up, i.e. they don't have the threat of violence hovering over them that boys do.
That is not to say that girls aren't violent; they are, but not in an overt way like men are. Men and boys are physically violent; we're more overt in our confrontations. Girls and women operate more covertly; they don't use physical violence like boys do, but they do use emotional violence.
I don't know if I'd go as far as to say that men or women are more moral as people though. If one adheres to a Biblical viewpoint as I do, and the Bible says that ALL have sinned, then one must logically believe that both men & women can be equally bad, or good. History seems to back up this view, as there are certain names (of both men & women) that will be forever infamous and notorious. Names such as Hitler, Mary Queen of Scots, and others are famous for REASON...
Getting back to what the younger men think, i.e. that women are incapable of causal thinking, I think it's simply because they have not SEEN such a woman for themselves; as far as they are concerned, such a woman doesn't exist. To them, it's myth or urban legend, a la the unicorn; they've heard tales of good, decent women, but they've never SEEN one, let alone KNOWN one. Hence, they think that women are not capable of accountability.
Because women are more emotional than guys are, I think it's EASIER for them to fall into the victimhood trap. Women are easier to trick or deceive. Adam & Eve are a good example; the serpent went to Eve, not Adam, and he did so for a reason. If you do research on Edward Bernays, he was a pioneer on advertising, mass manipulation, etc.; he was responsible for getting women to smoke back in the early 20th Century. How did he do it? He told them that smoking would be LIBERATING. Gee, where have we heard THAT before?!
Men can be manipulated on an emotional level too, but they aren't targeted in the same way women are. For example, I remember an old Chevrolet TV ad; it was the first one of their "Heartbeat of America" ads. Anyway, in that first ad, at the end, it shows a guy & gal in a Corvette convertible, and he puts a lip lock on the gal as he puts the top up! The inference, of course, is that if I get a 'Vette, then I can get action with the hot babes too. Men are manipulated via their sex drive.
I remember getting a marketing letter from Kawasaki. I didn't give my name to them though; even though I own Kawasaki motorcycles, I bought them used, not through a dealer; they didn't get my name via the normal channels. However, I did join a forum devoted to the ZRX1100 motorcycle, and I had to give my name & address when I registered. Kawasaki obviously got my name from the folks hosting the forum. I say that because I received this interesting letter mere weeks after I joined.
Anyway, I got this letter touting their new Ninja ZX-14, that two wheeled land missile capable of hitting almost 200 mph-in stock trim! The letter started off by saying they like how I take the lead, that I'm not content to be a follower, stuff like that. Then, they drop the other shoe, and they say that I can be a leader if I just run down to my friendly, neighborhood Kawasaki dealer, and buy a new ZX-14! Nice try, guys...
Do I like the new bike? Yes, I do; it's quite a machine. However, my ZRX1100 is more than fast & powerful enough; it's certainly more than enough for any SANE person! What the blazes do I need a 200 hp, 200 mph LAND MISSILE for?! Besides, my 1999 ZRX1100 is paid for, whereas a new bike would not be-another compelling argument for keeping the bike I have...
But, do you see how they did that? Did you see how they played on my natural tendencies as a man? They played the leader angle; they played the competition angle by implying that I'd be the fastest man around on the ZX-14; they played the nice, new, flashy, fast, cutting-edge machine angle (us guys like machines for some reason, as I'm sure you're finding out via your son). Guys can be and are manipulated; they're just manipulated in a different WAY vis a vis women.
I'm going to close this out. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and giving me the insight that I was seeking; it may not have been apparent in my previous comment, but that's what I was seeking. Because of how us guys think, i.e. in a linear way; and because we have precious few examples of what true LADIES are like these days (all ladies are women, but not all women are ladies-a subtle but important distinction); when we see a vast majority of women behaving like your friend's coworkers do, then it's all too easy for us men to fall into the line of thought that women are not capable of accountability. The reasoning process we use is similar to that used when men think that women enjoy being treated badly, if you remember that conversation. Just as I knew there had to be something that I was missing on the question of whether or not women enjoy being treated badly, I knew that there had to be more when it comes to women being capable of causal thinking. Thanks for showing me the light on this; I knew you would, and you didn't disappoint! Good night...
MarkyMark
Two words; Passive Aggressive. People who blame others for thier shortcomings, refuse to hold themselves accountable for thier choices/actions and feels they are constantly the victims.
There's one thing I just can't understand. How can so many women be feminists?
You know, femminists wanna do bad things to the fathers, sons, brothers, boyfriends, husbands, male relatives, male friends of these women.
I'll take a wild guess, these women don't care about the men in their lives or they don't know what is feminism all about.
@ MarkyMark
all ladies are women, but not all women are ladies
LOL, those are the exact words I have expounded to my children on more than one occassion. :-)
@anon
I'll take a wild guess, these women don't care about the men in their lives or they don't know what is feminism all about.
I have found that a very large number of self-proclaimed feminists are very ignorant about the movement they embrace.
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